Council debates roadwork

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What started out as a briefing regarding a meeting the city had with the province about road work turned into a lengthy discussion that left many councillors with more questions than answers during Monday night's Finance and Administration Committee meeting.

In the end, council voted for a motion asking for designs to be completed for work on that part of Route 117/Wellington Street that runs through Loggieville and beyond, as well as on King George Highway — but only after councillors had been inundated with information and facts about the two roads.

The discussion started when Coun. Rupert Bernard gave a briefing on a recent meeting between several councillors, the transportation minister, Transportation Department staff and Regional Minister John Foran.

"The purpose of the meeting with the minister of transportation was to see if we could find additional funding to complete the two projects, as noted here, the way the city of Miramichi would like to see them done, and not necessarily the way the province of New Brunswick would like to see them done," Bernard said. "In both instances, the province of New Brunswick has money on the table. For Route 117, it's from the Designated Highway Grant Program and is about $700,000, and for King George Highway, it is about $200,000 — and that's the Designated Highway Program."

Bernard said the participants in the meeting talked of getting the work done this year to avoid construction during the World Acadian Congress in 2009. That would mean, he said, completing the work before the end of the 2008 construction season, which he had been assured could be done.

Bernard said the question boils down to the level of quality of the work to be done, adding he believes the city set a standard with work that was completed last year on King George Highway from the Kingsway Restaurant to Curtis Corner that included raised sidewalks and curbs.

He said the city should insist on a similar standard of work on King George Highway in the Nordin.

The province, however, is suggesting the city "grind and pave" the area, forgoing sidewalks and curbs for now in order to get more of the road fixed up right away.

Coun. Robert Trevors, echoed Bernard's sentiments.

"We had set a precedent on Highway 8 and Highway 117 with a raised sidewalk and curbs on both sides," Trevors said. "My concern is, I'd like to have the road done the way it should be done."

Coun. Derek Burchill said he wasn't happy that he hadn't had a chance to see a copy of the report from the meeting.

"First of all, next time it would be nice to get a written report. Then we'd know what we're talking about," Burchill said. "The other thing is, wouldn't it be procedure for the engineer to put a recommendation down as to ‘what' and ‘where' and ‘how,' or am I completely off-base here?"

"You want me to answer the question?" Bernard asked Burchill.

Engineer's involvement

"No. I want the engineer to answer the question," interjected Coun. Joan Cripps.

However, city engineer Csaba Kazamer said he wasn't at the meeting and therefore didn't know what was discussed.

Bernard explained why the engineer wasn't there.

"Just to clarify, the meeting was politician-to-politician. I think that's what the motion of the council was: for a committee of this council to meet with the minister to talk about additional funding for these two projects," Bernard said.

Meeting chair Mike McCoombs, who attended the meeting with the province, attempted to clarify the issue further.

What we're basically looking at here tonight is French Fort Cove — King George Highway — this one-kilometre from the cove down to Trevors Hyundai. However, what the provincial government is looking at is, if you take that same amount of money, we can pave ... white-line-to-white line [from French Fort Cove right through to the Nordin/Douglastown boundary]," McCoombs said.

"Basically what we're looking at is, ‘Do we want a Cadillac here? Or do we want a Hyundai?"

Cripps reiterated that would like to hear from Kazamer on the subject.

"I appreciate the fact that it was politician-to-politician, but I think our engineer should have been at this meeting," she said. "He's the one that does the planning for us."

Different projects

Kazamer offered to clarify some of the information to help clear up some of the apparent confusion. He noted Route 117 and Route 8 are two completely different projects, Route 117 being included in the province's Designated Highway Grant Program and Route 8 being included in the province's Designated Highway Capital Program.

"The grant program is just that … they ‘grant' you a highway. You get it once it's done. Case in point: King George Highway, from Kingsway Avenue to Curtis Corner was completed under the Designated Highway Grant program. We were granted that highway Jan. 1, 2008. [When that happened] we lost ... eight kilometres of winter maintenance, eight kilometres of summer maintenance ...," he said.

"In the case of Route 117, it's 12.5 kilometre ... If we proceed with this grant initiative, then we are going to be granted that road at the end of it."

Kazamer said it is clear the province is putting more money into the grant program so that it can turn over responsibility for highways to municipalities, but, he noted, there is a window of opportunity for the city to walk away from the grant program when it comes to Route 117.

"In 2006, the province of new Brunswick spent just a little over $900,000 on that road under the grant program, per the agreement … the next step is the $700,000 that they have committed for 2008 ... [But we are still] in a good position now, to perhaps, opt out of the grant program. That would mean that the highway would still remain the responsibility of the province of New Brunswick [and] we would still receive operation and maintenance money, as low as it is … But if we take the $700,000 — that's commitment. That's a sign that we've committed to the grant program [that] we will accept the highway."

Kazamer told council the province had committed $4 million to Route 117 and any additional money needed to fix the road would have to come from the city if the city shouldered responsibility for it by accepting the $700,000 grant money. He added the total cost to bring the highway up to the city's desired standard is $16 million. with the $4 million from the province, the city would have to pay the remaining $12 million.

Kazamer's explanation raised concerns for Coun. Bill Treadwell, who said he now realized the city will be taking on more costs by taking responsibility for the highway.

"After we take over the highway in the future, that's where the big bucks are going to be spent."

KGH in bad shape

On the subject of King George Highway, Kazamer said that after speaking with provincial engineers it was decided something needs to be done to repair the surface now.

"It was a consensus that we had to intervene on the King George Highway because of the accelerated deterioration we experienced this winter. We proposed that we do the grind-and-pave from white line to white line so we can ... keep people's hubcaps on," he said.

Kazamer noted the province wants to fix a longer stretch of asphalt now and come back in 6-7 years to install the sidewalks and curbs, thus eventually bringing it up to the standard set by the city.

He also questioned Bernard's assertion that work could be started and completed this year.

"I know that, historically, once we've reach certain levels, there have been efforts on my part and in the department to defer completion dates on projects into a following year with the hopes of getting better value for our money. Once we reach a certain level of capital projects, our prices start to go up," he said.

He pointed out design planning for the project could take 6-8 weeks, followed by another 3-4 weeks for tendering, thus pushing a possible start date into the fall.

Design only

Bernard said he had not intended to begin a long discussion and his motion, which he then introduced, called for design work only.

Burchill responded with open irritation.

"Well, I'm sufficiently confused [after] listening to what he engineer had to say and to the motion, so I guess I'm going to assume the engineering department is going to bring forward a management report somewhere along the line here," Burchill said.

Bernard seemed to take exception to that comment.

"I've always understood our departments work for the council and if the council wants a specific design for a specific road to occur, then we decide that and that work is done for us. That's the way I understand things to work. Now, if it's changed lately I'd like to know that," Bernard said.

"Now that wasn't very nice," Burchill retorted, ending his response with a clear reference to a religious figure that some would consider offensive when used under such circumstances.

Coun. Michael Malley said he just wants to see the road fixed — and fixed properly.

"The road's got to be done right. It can't be done half-a**," he said.

Bernard's motion eventually passed and was expected to be approved at last night's regular monthly council meeting.